The news that Manny Being Manny includes Drago-esque chemical amplification pushed me to throw something together fast. I’ll admit that I was shocked, which reveals little other than my immense but quickly dissolving naivety. This from a guy whose favorite player growing up was Jose Canseco.
A glorious future ahead for these two choir boys.
Yes, I had a Bash Brothers poster on my wall, and the ol’ ’86 Donruss Rated Rookie is still safely ensconced in a Lucite screw down case in my old bedroom closet. My father happens to run a drug-testing lab, and belittled my young fandom with references to “Steroid Canseco.” This was in the late ‘80s, so despite twenty years of steroid revelations, I can still be shocked. Again, revealing nothing more than that I am a sucker.
Ah, young Jose. So much roid-fueled potential, and I’m not just talking about that sweet proto-stache.
The following isn’t scientific. But I grabbed a career list of all-time players, sorted by wOBA, which is one of the new-fangled baseball stats that pretty much sums up the offensive production of a player in one number. (BTW, I got this from Fangraphs.com – an awesome site for intelligent baseball discussion, unlike the tripe this site puts out). I did a simple sort, and went through highlighting players from what I remember as the steroid era, basically the mid 80s to today. The goal is to draw a line at which suspicion starts – that is, after all the revelations of the past 10 years, we’ve come to the point where anybody north of the line is pretty much considered guilty until proven innocent. This is based on nothing more than the numbers, but when you look at the company they keep numbers-wise, it’s hard to think they did it “au naturale.”
Where to draw the line? Again, nothing scientific, but it’s hard to figure this guy was below the line:
338 Sammy Sosa 0.37
The list is below, in all its potentially-defamatory glory. Confirmed, or near-confirmed users include Bonds, Giambi, A-Rod, Juan Gonzalez, Sheffield, Palmeiro, and Mr. Canseco. I put in bold the steroid-era players that I recognized, but probably missed a few. And yes, seeing Edgar Martinez above the line makes me cringe. Any confirmation that Edgar’s glory was enhanced would result in my actual tears. His game-winning double in the 1995 ALDS is, to this day, pretty much the greatest moment in my life. So, I’ll hold on to my last shred of youthful belief that Edgar is one of the few modern players north of the Line that did it clean. Well, at least as clean as the amphetamine-fueled greats of the 50s through 90s, but you get my drift. Review the list and watch the heroes of your youth fall. Two final things, 1) seeing Big Dan Brouthers (#19) play was really something special. I wish you all could have been there, 2) Gene Tenace – WHAMMY! (#324)
|
Rank |
Name | wOBA |
|
1 |
Babe Ruth |
0.51 |
|
2 |
Ted Williams |
0.493 |
|
3 |
Lou Gehrig |
0.474 |
|
4 |
Rogers Hornsby |
0.459 |
|
5 |
Jimmie Foxx |
0.458 |
|
6 |
Hank Greenberg |
0.453 |
|
7 |
Ty Cobb |
0.451 |
|
8 |
Billy Hamilton |
0.447 |
|
9 |
John McGraw |
0.442 |
|
10 |
Joe Jackson |
0.439 |
|
11 |
Barry Bonds |
0.439 |
|
12 |
Joe DiMaggio |
0.439 |
|
13 |
Albert Pujols |
0.436 |
|
14 |
Stan Musial |
0.436 |
|
15 |
Tris Speaker |
0.436 |
|
16 |
Johnny Mize |
0.433 |
|
17 |
Bill Joyce |
0.432 |
|
18 |
Mel Ott |
0.432 |
|
19 |
Dan Brouthers |
0.432 |
|
20 |
Mickey Mantle |
0.431 |
|
21 |
Ed Delahanty |
0.428 |
|
22 |
Ralph Kiner |
0.428 |
|
23 |
Lefty O’Doul |
0.428 |
|
24 |
Charlie Keller |
0.428 |
|
25 |
Harry Heilmann |
0.426 |
|
26 |
Jake Stenzel |
0.423 |
|
27 |
Hack Wilson |
0.423 |
|
28 |
Todd Helton |
0.421 |
|
29 |
Manny Ramirez |
0.421 |
|
30 |
Ken Williams |
0.419 |
|
31 |
Bill Lange |
0.419 |
|
32 |
Frank Thomas |
0.416 |
|
33 |
Mark McGwire |
0.415 |
|
34 |
Eddie Collins |
0.414 |
|
35 |
Earl Averill |
0.414 |
|
36 |
Larry Walker |
0.414 |
|
37 |
Ray Grimes |
0.414 |
|
38 |
Honus Wagner |
0.414 |
|
39 |
Chuck Klein |
0.413 |
|
40 |
Babe Herman |
0.413 |
|
41 |
Willie Mays |
0.413 |
|
42 |
Jackie Robinson |
0.412 |
|
43 |
Alex Rodriguez |
0.412 |
|
44 |
Mickey Cochrane |
0.411 |
|
45 |
Benny Kauff |
0.411 |
|
46 |
Jesse Burkett |
0.409 |
|
47 |
Bob Johnson |
0.409 |
|
48 |
Al Simmons |
0.409 |
|
49 |
Bill Kenworthy |
0.409 |
|
50 |
Lance Berkman |
0.408 |
|
51 |
Bill Terry |
0.408 |
|
52 |
Jim Thome |
0.407 |
|
53 |
Joe Harris |
0.407 |
|
54 |
Chipper Jones |
0.407 |
|
55 |
Pete Browning |
0.407 |
|
56 |
Riggs Stephenson |
0.407 |
|
57 |
Joe Kelley |
0.406 |
|
58 |
Jeff Bagwell |
0.406 |
|
59 |
Mike Donlin |
0.406 |
|
60 |
Frank Robinson |
0.406 |
|
61 |
Jack Fournier |
0.406 |
|
62 |
Gavvy Cravath |
0.405 |
|
63 |
Hank Aaron |
0.405 |
|
64 |
Duke Snider |
0.405 |
|
65 |
Paul Waner |
0.405 |
|
66 |
Dolph Camilli |
0.405 |
|
67 |
Edgar Martinez |
0.405 |
|
68 |
Chick Hafey |
0.405 |
|
69 |
Roger Connor |
0.404 |
|
70 |
Charlie Gehringer |
0.404 |
|
71 |
Sam Thompson |
0.403 |
|
72 |
Mike Tiernan |
0.403 |
|
73 |
Goose Goslin |
0.402 |
|
74 |
Arky Vaughan |
0.402 |
|
75 |
Dick Allen |
0.402 |
|
76 |
George Selkirk |
0.402 |
|
77 |
Jason Giambi |
0.402 |
|
78 |
Elmer Flick |
0.401 |
|
79 |
Denny Lyons |
0.401 |
|
80 |
Kiki Cuyler |
0.401 |
|
81 |
Tommy Henrich |
0.401 |
|
82 |
Hal Trosky |
0.4 |
|
83 |
Jeff Heath |
0.4 |
|
84 |
Ike Boone |
0.4 |
|
85 |
Vladimir Guerrero |
0.399 |
|
86 |
Ryan Braun |
0.399 |
|
87 |
Nap Lajoie |
0.399 |
|
88 |
Bill Salkeld |
0.399 |
|
89 |
Hugh Duffy |
0.398 |
|
90 |
Matt Holliday |
0.398 |
|
91 |
Roy Cullenbine |
0.398 |
|
92 |
Dale Alexander |
0.397 |
|
93 |
Albert Belle |
0.396 |
|
94 |
Ray Blades |
0.396 |
|
95 |
Al Rosen |
0.396 |
|
96 |
George Sisler |
0.396 |
|
97 |
Ryan Howard |
0.396 |
|
98 |
Frank Chance |
0.396 |
|
99 |
Larry Doby |
0.396 |
|
100 |
Mike Schmidt |
0.395 |
|
101 |
Dick Wakefield |
0.395 |
|
102 |
Wally Berger |
0.395 |
|
103 |
David Wright |
0.394 |
|
104 |
Jim Bottomley |
0.394 |
|
105 |
Elmer Smith |
0.394 |
|
106 |
George Grantham |
0.394 |
|
107 |
Bill Dickey |
0.394 |
|
108 |
Cupid Childs |
0.394 |
|
109 |
Ross Youngs |
0.394 |
|
110 |
Zeke Bonura |
0.394 |
|
111 |
Joe Medwick |
0.394 |
|
112 |
Phil Weintraub |
0.394 |
|
113 |
Jimmy Bannon |
0.394 |
|
114 |
Pete Reiser |
0.394 |
|
115 |
Tip O’Neill |
0.393 |
|
116 |
Gary Sheffield |
0.392 |
|
117 |
Ed Morgan |
0.392 |
|
118 |
Earle Combs |
0.392 |
|
119 |
Hanley Ramirez |
0.392 |
|
120 |
Bobby Abreu |
0.392 |
|
121 |
David Ortiz |
0.392 |
|
122 |
Fred Clarke |
0.392 |
|
123 |
Monte Irvin |
0.391 |
|
124 |
Joe Cronin |
0.391 |
|
125 |
Travis Hafner |
0.39 |
|
126 |
Chase Utley |
0.39 |
|
127 |
Ferris Fain |
0.39 |
|
128 |
Carlos Delgado |
0.39 |
|
129 |
Bug Holliday |
0.39 |
|
130 |
Miguel Cabrera |
0.39 |
|
131 |
Gabby Hartnett |
0.39 |
|
132 |
Eddie Mathews |
0.39 |
|
133 |
Dave Orr |
0.39 |
|
134 |
Brian Giles |
0.39 |
|
135 |
Hack Miller |
0.39 |
|
136 |
Don Hurst |
0.39 |
|
137 |
Earl Webb |
0.389 |
|
138 |
Mike Piazza |
0.389 |
|
139 |
Cap Anson |
0.389 |
|
140 |
Ross Barnes |
0.389 |
|
141 |
Heinie Manush |
0.389 |
|
142 |
Sid Gordon |
0.389 |
|
143 |
Joe Hauser |
0.389 |
|
144 |
Ken Griffey Jr. |
0.389 |
|
145 |
Rudy York |
0.389 |
|
146 |
Hughie Jennings |
0.389 |
|
147 |
Harmon Killebrew |
0.389 |
|
148 |
Harry Stovey |
0.388 |
|
149 |
Willie McCovey |
0.388 |
|
150 |
Del Bissonette |
0.388 |
|
151 |
Willie Stargell |
0.387 |
|
152 |
Mark Teixeira |
0.387 |
|
153 |
Bill Nicholson |
0.387 |
|
154 |
George Van Haltren |
0.387 |
|
155 |
Whitey Kurowski |
0.386 |
|
156 |
Cy Williams |
0.386 |
|
157 |
Rickey Henderson |
0.386 |
|
158 |
Mo Vaughn |
0.386 |
|
159 |
George Harper |
0.386 |
|
160 |
Harlond Clift |
0.386 |
|
161 |
Mike Griffin |
0.386 |
|
162 |
Joe Connolly |
0.386 |
|
163 |
Tony Lazzeri |
0.386 |
|
164 |
Willie Keeler |
0.386 |
|
165 |
J.D. Drew |
0.386 |
|
166 |
Al Wingo |
0.385 |
|
167 |
Sherry Magee |
0.385 |
|
168 |
Roy Campanella |
0.385 |
|
169 |
Augie Galan |
0.385 |
|
170 |
Ripper Collins |
0.385 |
|
171 |
Enos Slaughter |
0.385 |
|
172 |
Jason Bay |
0.385 |
|
173 |
Sam Crawford |
0.384 |
|
174 |
Dutch Zwilling |
0.384 |
|
175 |
Jimmy Ryan |
0.384 |
|
176 |
Frank Brower |
0.384 |
|
177 |
Adam Dunn |
0.384 |
|
178 |
Bob Meusel |
0.384 |
|
179 |
Dixie Walker |
0.384 |
|
180 |
Jim Edmonds |
0.384 |
|
181 |
Zack Wheat |
0.384 |
|
182 |
Kal Daniels |
0.383 |
|
183 |
Frank Baker |
0.383 |
|
184 |
Fred McGriff |
0.382 |
|
185 |
Len Koenecke |
0.382 |
|
186 |
Juan Gonzalez |
0.382 |
|
187 |
Tex McDonald |
0.382 |
|
188 |
Joe Morgan |
0.382 |
|
189 |
Braggo Roth |
0.382 |
|
190 |
Edd Roush |
0.382 |
|
191 |
Tim Salmon |
0.382 |
|
192 |
Bob Elliott |
0.381 |
|
193 |
Norm Cash |
0.381 |
|
194 |
Danny Taylor |
0.381 |
|
195 |
Bobby Veach |
0.381 |
|
196 |
Bubbles Hargrave |
0.381 |
|
197 |
Minnie Minoso |
0.381 |
|
198 |
Babe Phelps |
0.381 |
|
199 |
John Stone |
0.381 |
|
200 |
Les Fleming |
0.381 |
|
201 |
Henry Larkin |
0.381 |
|
202 |
Hank Sauer |
0.38 |
|
203 |
Will Clark |
0.38 |
|
204 |
Wally Schang |
0.38 |
|
205 |
Josh Hamilton |
0.38 |
|
206 |
Lu Blue |
0.38 |
|
207 |
Rafael Palmeiro |
0.38 |
|
208 |
Bob Caruthers |
0.38 |
|
209 |
Johnny Bassler |
0.38 |
|
210 |
Max Bishop |
0.38 |
|
211 |
Wade Boggs |
0.38 |
|
212 |
Oyster Burns |
0.38 |
|
213 |
Prince Fielder |
0.38 |
|
214 |
King Kelly |
0.379 |
|
215 |
Levi Meyerle |
0.379 |
|
216 |
Gil Hodges |
0.379 |
|
217 |
Stan Hack |
0.379 |
|
218 |
Wally Judnich |
0.379 |
|
219 |
Al Kaline |
0.379 |
|
220 |
Magglio Ordonez |
0.379 |
|
221 |
Mike Grady |
0.379 |
|
222 |
Bobby Estalella |
0.379 |
|
223 |
Ellis Burks |
0.379 |
|
224 |
Ben Chapman |
0.379 |
|
225 |
David Justice |
0.379 |
|
226 |
Moises Alou |
0.379 |
|
227 |
Johnny Mostil |
0.378 |
|
228 |
Reggie Smith |
0.378 |
|
229 |
Kevin Youkilis |
0.378 |
|
230 |
Ted Kluszewski |
0.378 |
|
231 |
Hank Thompson |
0.378 |
|
232 |
Rusty Greer |
0.378 |
|
233 |
Ed Cartwright |
0.378 |
|
234 |
Kevin Mitchell |
0.378 |
|
235 |
Nomar Garciaparra |
0.378 |
|
236 |
Joe Gordon |
0.377 |
|
237 |
Al Scheer |
0.377 |
|
238 |
Tommy Glaviano |
0.377 |
|
239 |
Dummy Hoy |
0.377 |
|
240 |
Danny Tartabull |
0.377 |
|
241 |
Frankie Frisch |
0.377 |
|
242 |
Bobby Doerr |
0.377 |
|
243 |
Kip Selbach |
0.377 |
|
244 |
Curt Walker |
0.377 |
|
245 |
Stan Spence |
0.377 |
|
246 |
Earl Smith |
0.377 |
|
247 |
Steve Evans |
0.377 |
|
248 |
Tuck Turner |
0.377 |
|
249 |
Luke Easter |
0.377 |
|
250 |
Vern Stephens |
0.377 |
|
251 |
Johnny Frederick |
0.377 |
|
252 |
John Olerud |
0.376 |
|
253 |
Bibb Falk |
0.376 |
|
254 |
Billy Williams |
0.376 |
|
255 |
Eric Davis |
0.376 |
|
256 |
Buck Ewing |
0.376 |
|
257 |
Ernie Lombardi |
0.376 |
|
258 |
Luke Appling |
0.376 |
|
259 |
Tommy Holmes |
0.376 |
|
260 |
Bob Nieman |
0.376 |
|
261 |
Joe Sewell |
0.376 |
|
262 |
Jose Canseco |
0.375 |
|
263 |
George Gore |
0.375 |
|
264 |
Nick Etten |
0.375 |
|
265 |
Dom DiMaggio |
0.375 |
|
266 |
Jack Clark |
0.375 |
|
267 |
Jack Cust |
0.375 |
|
268 |
Vic Wertz |
0.375 |
|
269 |
Harvey Hendrick |
0.375 |
|
270 |
Jim Rice |
0.375 |
|
271 |
Reggie Jackson |
0.375 |
|
272 |
Ken Phelps |
0.375 |
|
273 |
Irish Meusel |
0.375 |
|
274 |
Barney McCosky |
0.375 |
|
275 |
Earl Torgeson |
0.374 |
|
276 |
Roy Thomas |
0.374 |
|
277 |
Scott Rolen |
0.374 |
|
278 |
George Brett |
0.374 |
|
279 |
Carl Yastrzemski |
0.374 |
|
280 |
Jim Gentile |
0.374 |
|
281 |
Roger Bresnahan |
0.374 |
|
282 |
Joe Judge |
0.374 |
|
283 |
Pepper Martin |
0.374 |
|
284 |
Johnny Hopp |
0.374 |
|
285 |
Frank Howard |
0.374 |
|
286 |
Bruce Campbell |
0.374 |
|
287 |
Derek Jeter |
0.374 |
|
288 |
Nick Markakis |
0.374 |
|
289 |
Dwight Evans |
0.374 |
|
290 |
Tim Raines |
0.374 |
|
291 |
Carlos Quentin |
0.374 |
|
292 |
Sam Rice |
0.374 |
|
293 |
Bob Fothergill |
0.373 |
|
294 |
Baby Doll Jacobson |
0.373 |
|
295 |
Jackie Jensen |
0.373 |
|
296 |
Bobby Bonds |
0.373 |
|
297 |
Ron Northey |
0.373 |
|
298 |
Bill Keister |
0.373 |
|
299 |
Don Lenhardt |
0.373 |
|
300 |
Hank Leiber |
0.373 |
|
301 |
Erubiel Durazo |
0.373 |
|
302 |
Bing Miller |
0.373 |
|
303 |
Greg Luzinski |
0.373 |
|
304 |
Chick Stahl |
0.373 |
|
305 |
Darryl Strawberry |
0.373 |
|
306 |
Buck Freeman |
0.373 |
|
307 |
Eddie Stanky |
0.373 |
|
308 |
John Kruk |
0.372 |
|
309 |
Carlos Beltran |
0.372 |
|
310 |
Ron Blomberg |
0.372 |
|
311 |
Lou Boudreau |
0.372 |
|
312 |
George Treadway |
0.372 |
|
313 |
Ryan Klesko |
0.372 |
|
314 |
Grady Sizemore |
0.372 |
|
315 |
Rocky Colavito |
0.372 |
|
316 |
Vin Campbell |
0.372 |
|
317 |
Ian Kinsler |
0.372 |
|
318 |
Joe Mauer |
0.372 |
|
319 |
Phil Cavarretta |
0.372 |
|
320 |
Brad Hawpe |
0.371 |
|
321 |
Bernie Williams |
0.371 |
|
322 |
Jake Beckley |
0.371 |
|
323 |
Fred Lynn |
0.371 |
|
324 |
Gene Tenace |
0.371 |
|
325 |
Pedro Guerrero |
0.371 |
|
326 |
Tony Gwynn |
0.371 |
|
327 |
Aaron Robinson |
0.371 |
|
328 |
Pat Mullin |
0.371 |
|
329 |
Elmer Valo |
0.371 |
|
330 |
Dusty Miller |
0.371 |
|
331 |
Jimmy Sheckard |
0.371 |
|
332 |
Nick Johnson |
0.371 |
|
333 |
Orlando Cepeda |
0.37 |
|
334 |
Jorge Posada |
0.37 |
|
335 |
Solly Hemus |
0.37 |
|
336 |
Kent Hrbek |
0.37 |
|
337 |
Dusty Cooke |
0.37 |
|
338 |
Sammy Sosa |
0.37 |
I always told anyone who asked that Kent Hrbek was more valuable than Sammy Sosa. Also how could you favorite player be in the same division with your favorite team? That’s just embarrassing.
My A’s/Canseco fandom was pure front-running, no doubt about it. In my (weak) defense, the pre-Griffey M’s were just painfully boring and bad at baseball. I quickly added a Griffey: The Next Generation poster featuring Jr. and dad, but yes, embarrassing.
[...] This post was Twitted by TexinAZ – Real-url.org [...]
Sad to see that Harold Reynolds wasn’t enough for you.
1977 64–98 .395 6th in AL West
1978 56–104 .350 7th in AL West
1979 67–95 .414 6th in AL West
1980 59–103 .364 7th in AL West
1981 44–65 .404 6th in AL West
1982 76–86 .469 4th in AL West
1983 60–102 .370 7th in AL West
1984 74–88 .457 5th in AL West
1985 74–88 .457 6th in AL West
1986 67–95 .414 7th in AL West
1987 78–84 .481 4th in AL West
1988 68–93 .422 7th in AL West
1989 73–89 .451 6th in AL West
1990 77–85 .475 5th in AL West
1991 83–79 .512 5th in AL West
Good Times. No, HR was not enough.
I’ve learned there’s some confusion on the premise of the list. Here’s the short version:
1) I listed the greatest all-time hitters.
2) I put in bold any player I recognized that played from the mid-80s or so on. These are players from the “Steroid Era.”
3) Based on the revelations on steroid use, and compared with the historic performers, anybody ahead of Sosa is suspect. Therefore, everybody in bold is suspect.
Feel free to argue where the line belongs, whether above or below Sosa.
[...] with three or more years in the league will be disappointed. Late career breakouts should arouse suspicion. The DBacks might have a little leeway as so many guys are 25 or [...]